Official Luthiers Forum! :: View topic - Fixing Carved Frets help!!!

or... you could change your name....

Seriously a single edged razor blade used as a mini scraper should do the trick if your friend's artistic embellishment is not too deep. With the blade no need to pull frets either. Follow-up with some 320 and you're good to go. Fold the 320 around 6 layers thick and use it vertically not unlike that old playing card and clothes pin in the spokes of our bikes when we were kids. The frets will be like the spokes if you get what I am trying to convey here.

Because of oxidation the repaired area will look different for about the first 20 years or so... so you could also lightly scrape and sand between all of the frets and then it will look like new. Use OOOO steel wool after this to clean up the frets first in the direction of the frets to get the gunk next to them and then across the frets to remove the scratches that you just made.

Lastly treat the board and I can't know what you have available in your beautiful country to do this with. Here in the states I use Howard feed-n-wax and love the stuff.

Hope this helps.

Author:	Darachg22 [ Wed May 21, 2014 8:59 am ]
Post subject:	Fixing Carved Frets help!!!
Hello everybody, My friend gave me his guitar a few years ago as he wasn't using it. I decided recently to start fixing it up but He had carved his initials (poorly!) into 3 of the frets. How or can I go about writing this terrible wrong? Thanks for your time and consideration, Darach.

Author:	ZekeM [ Wed May 21, 2014 9:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Fixing Carved Frets help!!!
Carved into the frets or the fretboard? If it's the fretboard what is it made of? Do you have pics?

Author:	Darachg22 [ Wed May 21, 2014 10:16 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Fixing Carved Frets help!!!
Sorry its carved into the fretboard. Its a rosewood fretboard. Here's a pic of the worst one. Thanks for your time Zeke. Darach

Author:	Bob Orr [ Wed May 21, 2014 10:51 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Fixing Carved Frets help!!!
Depending on how deep they are, pull the frets and sand back then re fret? Only other solution I can think of is rosewood dust and ca glue but this will still show to some extent. Cheers, Bob

Author:	RusRob [ Wed May 21, 2014 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Fixing Carved Frets help!!!
The pic doesn't really show how deep it is but you probably can sand it out. You will want to pull the frets or it will end up showing exactly where you sanded it. You should probably pull all the frets out and level the whole fretboard and you may end up having to cut new slots but the finished job will look like new. Of course it depends on the guitar itself. If it is not worth anything and doesn't play for beans then it probably isn't worth doing other than for a learning experience. That is pretty much how I learned how to repair guitars, find one that I could get for free and fix it up, play it for a while and give it away to someone. So it is great experience and a good learning process. And if it is a decent guitar it will be well worth the time and money. Cheers, Bob

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Author:	Chris Pile [ Wed May 21, 2014 12:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Fixing Carved Frets help!!!
Try a cabinet scraper - the one shaped like a French Curve. That way you can focus on the letters, and not worry about removing the rest of the fingerboard.

Author:	Hesh [ Wed May 21, 2014 3:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Fixing Carved Frets help!!!
or... you could change your name.... Seriously a single edged razor blade used as a mini scraper should do the trick if your friend's artistic embellishment is not too deep. With the blade no need to pull frets either. Follow-up with some 320 and you're good to go. Fold the 320 around 6 layers thick and use it vertically not unlike that old playing card and clothes pin in the spokes of our bikes when we were kids. The frets will be like the spokes if you get what I am trying to convey here. Because of oxidation the repaired area will look different for about the first 20 years or so... so you could also lightly scrape and sand between all of the frets and then it will look like new. Use OOOO steel wool after this to clean up the frets first in the direction of the frets to get the gunk next to them and then across the frets to remove the scratches that you just made. Lastly treat the board and I can't know what you have available in your beautiful country to do this with. Here in the states I use Howard feed-n-wax and love the stuff. Hope this helps.

Author:	RusRob [ Wed May 21, 2014 4:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Fixing Carved Frets help!!!
Hi Hesh, I find it interesting that you posted a minimalist approach to this repair. You are the one that always seems to be an "all or nothing" approach to repair so this is a bit of a surprise. I also find it amusing that you didn't have a 3 page explanation of why your all or nothing approach is the only right way to repair this problem... Are you feeling OK? Has someone or something taken over our Hesh?.... I hope you know I am just teasing you... But it is an odd answer from you of all people... Cheers, Bob I still stand by my first answer... It will look a whole lot better.

Author:	Darachg22 [ Wed May 21, 2014 4:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Fixing Carved Frets help!!!
Thanks a million for ye're help lads! I think im going to remove the frets and sand it down. The guitar isn't worth a curse and I'm only doing it for the experience as Rusbob said.

Author:	dzsmith [ Wed May 21, 2014 8:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Fixing Carved Frets help!!!
Hesh wrote: or... you could change your name.... Seriously a single edged razor blade used as a mini scraper should do the trick if your friend's artistic embellishment is not too deep. With the blade no need to pull frets either. Follow-up with some 320 and you're good to go. Fold the 320 around 6 layers thick and use it vertically not unlike that old playing card and clothes pin in the spokes of our bikes when we were kids. The frets will be like the spokes if you get what I am trying to convey here. Because of oxidation the repaired area will look different for about the first 20 years or so... so you could also lightly scrape and sand between all of the frets and then it will look like new. Use OOOO steel wool after this to clean up the frets first in the direction of the frets to get the gunk next to them and then across the frets to remove the scratches that you just made. Lastly treat the board and I can't know what you have available in your beautiful country to do this with. Here in the states I use Howard feed-n-wax and love the stuff. Hope this helps. Yeah, I'd get all of the gunk off first and then use Howards. The board has some strange differences in color. Maybe a stain can be applied?

Author:	RusRob [ Wed May 21, 2014 10:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Fixing Carved Frets help!!!
I don't know what your experience is but if you are going to take my advice then I will give you a few pointers. First, clean the complete fretboard up with Naphtha to de-gunk it. Give each fret a coating of lemon oil and make sure it gets under the fret so it moistens up the wood in the fret slot. That will help minimize chipping. When removing the frets use a small tipped soldering iron to slightly heat the frets up and they will come out much easier. Get a small set of end cutters and grind the rounded end off so they can get up under the frets. Or you can order a set from Stew Mac which are made just for that purpose. http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Special_tools_for_Fretting/Fret_Puller.html If you get chipping (which you will) either glue them back in as you pull each fret out using super glue or save them by putting them on a piece of tape making sure you number the slot they came from (I just glue them back as I pull the frets. Some will be really small difficult to try to glue in so just forget them. Instead when you sand the board down get a small amount of sanding dust and put a small drop of superglue in the chip with a toothpic and brush some of the dust into it. Let it set up and then sand it smooth. Use something like a thin putty knife or artist pallett knife to put in the slot so you don't fill it with glue and sanding dust (use it like a little dam in the slot). When you sand the board down prior to sanding it take note that it has a radius from side to side. You want to keep that same radius so don't just sand the fretboard flat. I use an old aluminum carpenters level that I sawed into an 18" section and put 120 grit self sticking sandpaper on the edge to level the board down. Make sure you level the board along its length but keeping the radius. Then switch to 220 grit and then 320. and finish it off with 400. You will need to order new frets and they come in all different sizes so get a micrometer and measure the length of the tang (the part that goes in the slot) as well as the width of the fret. Order the same size you have on the guitar. You may have to deepen the slots which will require a specific size jewelers saw. You may be able to just use a hobby shop razor saw if it is the correct size. You can also order fret saws from Stew Mac which are made in different sizes. Just make sure you use the correct size for the frets you are using. When putting the frets in you should be careful not to hit them too hard, just a quick rap is all it takes. Check on Youtube for a video on how to properly install the frets. There are a lot of them out there and a video will show you much more than trying to read how. You will also need to level the frets and crown them. Again, Youtube will give you an idea how it is done. It isn't necessary to have a crowning file (it does make it easier) to do the job, a small triangle file and a small flat file will do the job. Lastly, when you are done give the board a couple of coats of Lemon oil or fretboard conditioner to make it look like new and keep the wood from drying out. I would suggest searching on Youtube for all the procedures you need to do to refret there will be a lot of videos out there, some good some bad but watch a number of them and you will end up knowing what it right and will work best for you. I am sure when you are done you will be proud of the fact that you brought the fretboard back to looking and working like new. Cheers, Bob

Author:	Hesh [ Thu May 22, 2014 5:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Fixing Carved Frets help!!!
I see that Bob can be long winded too.... Feeling fine Bob just had a different take than you on this one. The OP asked about removing carved initials. That's the task that I addressed. You are advocating a full refret if I understand you correctly. This has our pal a likely beginner with no tools and little if any experience pulling frets, leveling a board, and refretting the instrument. I have him obtaining a single edge razor blade (likely available anywhere and not expensive), some OOOO steel wool (ditto on availability), and something to condition the board with when all is said and done. Time wise scraping the initials off and cleaning up the board could be done by nearly anyone in likely 1/2 an hour again with no investment in either the tools, materials, or knowledge for a refret. This is not directed at you Bob but on my mind in this case in the repair world every single day repair folks have the opportunity to fall into the trap of "scope creep" which basically refers to the idea that the job morphs over time into a much bigger deal. We are not compensated for scope creep and in fact pay an opportunity cost in a busy shop because the time that we waste addressing more than the stated requirement especially if risk is associated with same is also time that could have been spent completing billable hours within the stated scope of another job, It's not unlike that 3/16" ding that looks easy enough to address but gets addressed by someone who does not have experience. They drop fill, scrape, sand, notice that the sanding scratches now have migrated to a 6 x 6" area of the lower bout so they try some compounds and mess up even more of the instrument and unfortunately don't have a buffer because now in order to return the thing to being whole the guitar needs to have the entire top buffed. It's that one, lone string that if pulled on enough can ruin your day. The OP asked about scratches and that's what I addressed. It's not always easy to stay single minded with blinders on in the repair world but sure as shooting it will bite any repair person in time if they can't understand in advance that fixing everything possible on every instrument that comes our way is not going to get one where one wishes to go. So I stayed within the scope of the requirement, offered advice that is benign in the sense that the OP won't find themselves out of their league experience wise, and the advice does not require a suite of fretting tools, wire, knowledge, etc. I'm glad that you brought up the idea of what's appropriate for the instrument too. We still don't even know what we have here or if any effort is worth being spent on the thing. My investment in time for the OP 1/2 and hour, your investment in time for the OP - a full refret and board leveling and possibly a new nut too because that often goes along with a refret if the new frets are taller. Let's remember too the OP is ultimately going to do what ever they please and won't it be rather ironic if they decide to take neither of our advice? I'd be happy to write more but I have to get to work and do some billable hours.

Author:	Clay S. [ Thu May 22, 2014 6:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Fixing Carved Frets help!!!
The true minimalist approach would be to play the guitar until you have worn away the initials.... This might also be the best solution.

Author:	kencierp [ Thu May 22, 2014 7:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Fixing Carved Frets help!!!
I've repair some pretty bad FB defects using a single edge razor blade as a scraper (I think that has been mentioned) there really is no need to remove the frets. CA and Rosewood chips and dust can be used to fill the deeper gouges. A mixture of slightly different color particles looks better than a solid color paste. The scraping, leveling and final clean up and polishing process can be seen here: http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/fretdressing.html I think its doable.

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Author:	RusRob [ Thu May 22, 2014 7:48 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Fixing Carved Frets help!!!
That's the Hesh I know... Actually the OP said he was planning to fix the guitar up bit didn't know how to repair the carved in initials. I took from his question that he was planning to do more than just fix the 3 frets where the carving was. And from my perspective he sounded like he has an interest in learning. That is exactle how I learned repair.. by fixing up old guitars. I dont think there is any better way of learning than to jump in feet first. And with a great forum like this and others on the internet there is a wealth of info out there to learn how to do something. Re-fretting is actually one of the best places to start the learning process I think. If he was talking about cracked braces or re-setting a neck then that is a much different critter. And yes, he could just do nothing since the carved initials do not hurt the playability... Cheers Bob

Author:	Darachg22 [ Tue May 27, 2014 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Fixing Carved Frets help!!!
Lads thanks a million. I am only an amateur and all of the above tips are brilliant. Hopefully when i get it done i'll put up a picture and it wont be too bad! Thanks again, Darach

Author:	Michiyuki Kubo [ Tue May 27, 2014 7:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Fixing Carved Frets help!!!
The reason behind Heshs long post? He uses everclear while FPing, and then uses some for the finish. Just kidding man. I have to agree guys all the info given here was good stuff. I'd rather too much than too little honestly and then choose the best or a mixture of paths. It is nice that more experienced fellas/ladies do give a multitude of answers as well as thought Into what kind of skill level/time frame it needs/has.

Author:	RusRob [ Tue May 27, 2014 10:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Fixing Carved Frets help!!!
Yea, If we all patted each other on the back and gave each other Hi Five's for our brilliant answers this would be a pretty boring place. Did I just say that out loud? Cheers, Bob

Author:	johnparchem [ Tue May 27, 2014 11:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Fixing Carved Frets help!!!
Hesh wrote: It's not unlike that 3/16" ding that looks easy enough to address but gets addressed by someone who does not have experience. They drop fill, scrape, sand, notice that the sanding scratches now have migrated to a 6 x 6" area of the lower bout so they try some compounds and mess up even more of the instrument and unfortunately don't have a buffer because now in order to return the thing to being whole the guitar needs to have the entire top buffed. This sounds so familiar, unfortunately I never stopped pulling the string where just buffing the entire top would help.